Thursday, June 22, 2006

Jorge

Catcher's career OPS:
Mike Piazza .932
Mickey Cochrane .897
Bill Dickey .868
Roy Campanella .860
Gabby Hartnett .859
Jorge Posada .848
Ivan Rodriguez .831
Yogi Berra .830
Johnny Bench .818
Ernie Lombardi .818
Buck Ewing .807
Carlton Fisk .798
Gary Carter .774
Roger Bresnahan .763
Rick Ferrell .741
Ray Schalk .656

These are all of the Hall of Fame catchers along with Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, and Jorge Posada. Posada ranks very nicely amongst this elite group. I'm not saying Posada is a Hall of Famer. There are two problems. First, that won't be his ending OPS, as he hasn't had the downturn of his career yet. Second, he does not and will not have the career numbers of some of these catchers as he was not a starter until age 26, while many of these catchers were starting by age 21.

Posada's longevity may be helped significantly by the fact that he was not a catcher when he started his minor league career, he was a second baseman. Him having to learn the catcher position is a big part of the reason it took him so long to progress. However, he has less wear and tear on his body of a normal catcher.

When that down turn occurs will determine if he has any chance at the Hall of Fame. If it happens within the next 2 years, there is no chance. Even then he will be fighting an uphill battle.

Posada made his Major League debut in 1995, the same year Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera made their major league debuts (as well as Andy Pettitte).

That's part of his problem. He's one of four Yankees (Bernie Williams the other), who pre-date Joe Torre. It's arguable that of the four of them, he has had the least impact on the success of the Joe Torre era. Not to mention that other people like Paul O'Neill and Tino Martinez get a lot of the credit for the success of those teams as well. Posada gets overlooked.

Jorge Posada's chances of the Hall of Fame are remote. However, when he retires it may be worth taking a serious look at his credentials.

5 comments:

Sully said...

I'm biting my tounge to prevent saying angry, demeaning things about Jorge, so I'll just say this...

Welcome back, Ross.

Sully said...

Wait, I have something productive to add... how is Ray Schalk in the Hall of Fame? Is it just because he was a clean player on the '19 White Sox? That OPS is pathetic! I know they didn't hit many home runs back then, but wow.

Ross said...

He can't just get a flat out pass on the home run thing either. He was 27 in 1920 when the dead ball era ended. Granted, there still weren't many non-Ruth players hitting many home runs at that point, but 11 career home runs is pathetic.

Although, he did finish 10th in the league in bases on balls in 1920, so that must be how he got in.

Warren said...

To be fair, Posada has played in a better offensive era than all of the players behind him on the list (except Pudge - the new Pudge, I mean):

Catcher's career OPS (league OPS):
Mike Piazza .932 (.753)
Mickey Cochrane .897 (.786)
Bill Dickey .868 (.762)
Roy Campanella .860 (.763)
Gabby Hartnett .859 (.756)
Jorge Posada .848 (.765)
Ivan Rodriguez .831 (.768)
Yogi Berra .830 (.732)
Johnny Bench .818 (.717)
Ernie Lombardi .818 (.723)
Buck Ewing .807 (.700)
King Kelly .806 (.677)
Carlton Fisk .798 (.731)
Gary Carter .774 (.716)
Roger Bresnahan .763 (.676)
Rick Ferrell .741 (.766)
Ray Schalk .656 (.718)

In any case, he has no chance. Posada's best strength is probably his walk rate, and I can't imagine the HOF cares much about that. They'll just see a .269 hitter (probably lower by the time he retires).

I love how the HOF elected the wrong Ferrell - think they just got confused?

Rick Ferrell: .281/.378/.363, 28 HR in 6028 AB

Wes Ferrell: .280/.351/.446, 38 HR in 1176 AB

Schalk, like Bresnahan and Ferrell, was considered an excellent defensive catcher. Plus he stayed around the game as a manager and scout, which always helps the stupid Veteran's Committee remember your name. They can sit around a table smoking cigars and remember the good old days when guys like Schalk really knew how to play the game, and before you know it he's in the Hall of Fame.

Ross said...

There are always more offensive players in the Hall of Fame from offensive eras though.

And when Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera and Roger Clemens are smoking cigars and remembering the good old days in the year 2052, Jorge may just make it.